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We discuss the very complicated LDS plan of salvation. Pre-existent spirits in heaven with Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, literal parents of spirits. Then the second estate or earth life. After earth, LDS go to paradise; everyone else to spirit prison to be taught the LDS gospel. If one accepts the LDS gospel in the next life, they can be released from spirit prison and advance to paradise to await the judgment. Dr. Eklund explains what the LDS missionaries teach about this LDS plan of salvation and gives a biblical response. See this information in the fifth chapter of the book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message.

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Dr. Eklund describes the truths that broke his LDS shelf as he read the Bible and explored church history. He mentions Ephesians 2:8-9, Matthew 22:31, John 6, and the book of Romans as being impactful. He discovers fundamental biblical ideas are incompatible with essential teachings in Mormonism; some are: (1) the nature of the Trinitarian God, (2) there is only One God and He is unchangeable, (3) Salvation comes by grace through faith and not by our works, (4) justification – one is made right before God by Christ’s righteousness, like putting on a cloak, again, not by our works, and (5) LDS priesthood functions like a mediator between one and Jesus – there is no mediator but Jesus. As a scientist, he likens Bible truths and LDS gospel essentials to immiscible fluids. They are incompatible.

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The Wilders interview Dr. Matthew Eklund, raised LDS in northern Utah. He was baptized at age 10, active on and off during his teen years, Matt eventually desired to receive a testimony of the Book of Mormon. He decided that if he received one, he would serve an LDS mission. The LDS prophet challenged all church members to read the Book of Mormon in 2005. Matt took the challenge, felt a kind of peace, believing this to mean the Book of Mormon was true, so Joseph Smith must have been a prophet of God, and the LDS Church must be the one true church. He served an LDS mission in Belgium, never really questioning his LDS faith. Listen to the next episodes to find out how and why Matt left Mormonism and found Jesus. Dr. Eklund holds a PhD in Nuclear Engineering and Science.

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Anna Banister was raised in a biblical Christian family but drawn away from her faith to Mormonism through a relationship with an LDS man and his family. The Latter-day Saints taught her that the more persecution she received for pursuing Mormonism, the more she could know that she was choosing the right path. Opposition from biblical Christians was a confirmation Mormonism was true.

Anna says she thought Mormonism was giving her control over her own salvation. She was searching, hoping that Mormonism would be true and she was excited about having a forever family. Most of her questions were answered by the LDS missionaries and she was told that the more that she believed the more would be revealed to her.

Podcast co-host Joel Groat reminds us that faith is having Jesus as the object of your faith. Faith may have you go beyond reason but will never have you go against reason.

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After his mission, Paul poured into books and journals like the Journal of Book of Mormon Studies that supposedly demonstrated evidence for the Book of Mormon. He found there wasn’t really any. Looking online for a good LDS spouse, he met Angela, a new convert from the Cincinnati area. Paul soon moved to the Cincinnati area, found work, and married her in the temple. While working in health insurance, Paul tried to convert Charlotte to the LDS Church. She later returned the Book of Mormon to him and gave him a stack of papers her pastor had given her with reasons to question the LDS faith. Paul read them, began researching the various topics, and his “shelf broke.” Now not sure he even believed in God, Paul decided to simply focus on Christ but remain LDS. While driving, he began to listen to Christian radio hosts such as J. Vernon McGee, David Jeremiah, and Chip Ingram and tried to reconcile their teachings with Mormonism. He says his wonderful Christian father-in-law patiently “poured into him." Then, Paul secretly read In Sacred Loneliness about the plural wives of Joseph Smith. Angela read it as well, her shelf broke, and she longed to return to the grace-filled relationship she had known with Jesus in the evangelical church before she joined the LDS. Paul was ready. His first experience worshipping in an evangelical church made the differences between LDS and traditional Christianity palpable. Jesus was clearly the focus; Joseph Smith was not part of it. Paul was baptized unto Jesus in August of 2011 and then baptized his own son. Find him as co-host on the Outer Darkness Podcast.

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Corey Miller, former LDS now Christian CEO of Ratio Christi, explains that statistically there are more believers in Jesus in the basic and fundamental sciences like math and physics than in the social sciences. Smart people do believe. Discussion touches on evidences for the reliability of the Bible. Corey recommends the book In Defense of the Bible. We refer listeners to the final chapter in our book Leaving Mormonism: Why Four Scholars Changed their Minds for reasons to believe in God and to believe His Word. Corey reminds Lynn of a debate they did together with LDS apologist James Holt on Unbelievable Radio on November 24, 2017. Jesus is the answer to the human condition.

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This is Part 2 with the authors of the book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message, Corey Miller and Ross Anderson. Ross explains that although the LDS missionary manual Preach My Gospel was recently updated, none of the content has changed. When meeting with LDS missionaries, this book will prepare you in advance for what they will teach and give a biblical response. Learning the LDS gospel may help Christians understand the biblical gospel and be better able to articulate our own relationship with the living Jesus. Corey says we have 2 ears and one mouth for a reason—listen to the LDS! Five LDS may give 6 differing opinions on their beliefs. Respond to an individual’s beliefs. Ask questions. In addition to Miller and Anderson’s contributions, this book contains chapters from 6 former LDS missionaries now biblical Christians who also describe their experiences with Christians on their LDS missions, telling what Christians may have said or done that impacted them personally. Ross reminds us to testify to the reality and intimacy of our relationship with Jesus.

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MacKenzie encourages Christians: it’s ok not to have all the answers for LDS friends and missionaries. Simply tell them, that's a great question. I’ll research that and get back to you. This past year, MacKenzie has helped an LDS woman, Janet, in her transition from LDS faith to biblical understanding. She says at first Janet had an anxious emotional response after discovering how different LDS teachings were from biblical teachings. She needed just to be heard--to process what she was learning out loud--in a safe place with supportive friends. 

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The LDS church was studying the Old Testament. The LDS teaching that Eve’s taking of the fruit in the garden was a “fall upward” disturbed Brad. He knew that God wanted relationship with man and that Eve’s choice created a separation between God and man. When the LDS OT manual got to the part about the tabernacle, Brad knew the symbolism of the tabernacle and later the temple pointed to Jesus and that when Jesus died on the cross, there was no more need for a temple (Matt 27:51). Although while researching, he found information from ex-Mormon atheists online, Brad knew there was a God. So, when he came across the YouTube channel Hello Saints, he reached out to Pastor Jeff, who became a pastor to him as he struggled with his mom’s diagnosis of brain cancer and later cared for her. Although he felt peace after giving his mom an oil anointed LDS blessing, he felt the same peace when a Christian woman prayed for his mom without the oil. Brad’s mom, strong in her Christian faith, wrote a book before she died called, She Gave Me Carmel Apples (https://suevrooman.com/). After she passed, Brad dove into the Bible, using Christian commentaries and writing in the margins of his Bible; he decided the LDS gospel was way too complicated (see Romans 10:9-10). He gained an assurance his mom was in the presence of God without any LDS ordinances. His hand is not too short to save (Isaiah 59:1). Brad went to see Adam’s Road, stopped wearing his LDS garments and declared this decision brought healing. Brad is in the process of giving up his LDS membership; he found a supportive Christian community. He says the best way to describe what happened to him is simply: Jesus is enough.